2009/06/23

feral behavior different in colony than in a cage?

My friend who team feeds a colony was out of town this past weekend and asked me to feed her colony for her. This is the same colony where we got the cat who bit me, and we recently returned after she was spayed and quarantined for 10 days.


One of the cats there, a pretty tuxedo cat, is tame to the feeders, but when I helped TNR him and held him at my house in a cage, he growled and wanted to kill me. We had to hang on to him for about a week after his neuter since he had a nasty head wound and we wanted it to heal up some before returning him. When my friend came to visit Tuxedo at my house he was tame, purred for her, wanted scratches, etc., but if I got near the cage he growled and spit and tried his best to act dangerous (which I seriously respected). This was a couple months ago.

When I went out to the colony to feed this past weekend, Tuxedo and another cat were there waiting for me. The other cat has been friendly to me the 3 other times I have been at the colony. Tuxedo ran up to me and wanted not just food, but serious petting! He would purr and rub all over me, even to the point of ignoring the food to get pets. None of this hang back and see that the other cat thought it was OK, he was right in there for attention!

Is this common behavior? I know that some ferals get friendly to their regular feeders and won't trust other people, but this cat hadn't seen me since I had him at my place and there he wanted to do serious harm to me. This is also a bit discouraging, if they remain ferocious in a cage, but back in their home turf they are sweet.




2009/06/16

3 eight weeks old littermates, various stages of taming

3 kittens. 2 males fixed yesterday, 1 female fixed last Friday. They have been living in a garage for the past 3 weeks. New caretaker didn't listen and let them run the garage, even though I brought two cages, and all the fixins. I forgive him, he's new to this and is learning. He'll get there.


I got permission to relocate to another caretaker with lots of taming experience. I will bring them to the new foster tomorrow afternoon(Wednesday). They are all at my house tonight.

The male, solid black one, is pretty tame after a few hours in my house but still runs if I move too fast. One, the female, I have in a cage because she immediately set up shop inside the recliner's mechanism. The other orange male lurks and let's me get close, closer, can barely touch, then runs. I have been able to pick that one up a few times tonight.

So, when they go to their new foster family, do we cage them all? Together? Seperately? I don't think the orange one male and female can go in a cage together because she was all hissy with him and kinda violent when i tried to put him in with her. They were seperated since Sunday evening. I have enough cages to loan the foster mom if they need to be seperated.

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2009/06/15

Alley Cat Allies -- Drop trap - concerns

Gesine wrote:
> Hi Kiff and all,
>
> Kiff, how about you write to Alley Cat Allies, with your detailed
> info?


Funny you should suggest that, Gesine - I have a letter to ACA prepared
already, and will send it in the next couple of days.

Here's the text. Any suggestions?

To Whom It May Concern:

Let me first say that I greatly admire your organization and all the
good work you do. I'm a feral trapper/caretaker, and also serve as vice
president of New Mexico Animal Friends, a small no-kill cat and dog
rescue group out here in Albuquerque. You folks are super, and I refer
people to your website for feral trapping instructions at least 3 times
a week.

However, I have some grave concerns about the design of the drop trap
you're selling on your website. I'm a skilled and experienced drop
trapper, and I believe your trap is much too heavy. The weight listed on
the website is 23 pounds. That's more than enough falling weight to
break the paws and tails of adult cats, and could squash a small kitten
flat. If the cat bolted as the trap came down, and it fell across their
back, it might snap their spine. I realize that the cat is supposed to
be fully inside before dropping the trap, but anyone who's ever used a
drop trap extensively knows that's impossible to guarantee. There's
always a tail tip or paw sticking out, or the cat tries to bolt.

For comparison, I have a home-built drop trap of the classic "HubCats"
design. No, it doesn't fold, which is the brilliant part about your
design. It's a simple frame made from thin strips of pine, and covered
with heavy nylon athletic netting. It has a hinged flap at the back to
anchor it in place – you put a cement block on the flap. My trap weighs
approximately 11 pounds, and I can easily lift it with one finger. The
flap is made of heavy plywood, and accounts for about 3 pounds of the
total. That's not "suspended weight" – it doesn't fall when the trap is
triggered, just sits on the ground. The suspended weight of the trap is
only about 8 pounds. I've trapped scores of cats without injury.

When I built my trap, I made it as light as possible, and tested it to
make sure it wouldn't hurt. I set it up on a concrete surface and
dropped it on my own fingertips. It smarts a bit, but would never cause
any significant injury. By contrast, ALL of the weight of your trap
design is suspended weight – it doesn't use an anchor flap. That's 23
pounds falling on a kitten's tiny paw, on pavement. Try that on your own
fingers sometime. Go on – I double-dog dare you! An acquaintance of mine
bought one of your traps, and reports that it will flatten a soda can.
That's /way/ too heavy to be safe. I have an unabridged dictionary which
weighs 14 pounds – imagine that falling on a cat's tail!


In conclusion, I am happy to see that someone is actually marketing a
commercially-made drop trap (they're hard to come by unless you build
your own). However, I seriously think you need to re-visit your design.
Since by selling these online, you're putting them in the hands of
amateurs without trapping experience, I am terribly afraid that the
result will be an excess of injured cats and possibly even fatal accidents.

Sincerely,

- Kiff LaBar-Shelton


,,,>^..^<,,, To the world, you are just another person. To a rescued
animal, you are the world.


Gesine wrote:
> Hi Kiff and all,
>
> Kiff, how about you write to Alley Cat Allies, with your detailed
> info?
>
> Gesine
>
>





2009/06/14

Feral Cats being trapped at North Carolina A&T Univers

A quick update....I went over there yesterday about noon...some of the traps that were tripped the night before arounf 10pm, were still sitting there unattended for at least 14 hours.  If a cat had been in a trap for that long, it could have been devastating.


The traps were checked again around 9pm and a cat was inside one of them....somehow it got out.....don't know how

We did find a litter of kittens playing near one of the dorms, traps were set up to get them out of there.  Then we need to find Mama and get her Spayed.

The local Fox TV station is going to do a story Monday..they are great people here, they are supporters of our group.

Hope Alley Cat Allies can get involved before too many are killed.  I just do NOT trust this PMI.  Right on their website they say they do not trap cats and dogs....so what are Feral Cats??????

Thanks again,
Amy
 Three things in life are certain;
death, taxes, and cats helping
to make the bed >^..^<


Hi Amy,
I have sent an email to Chancellor Martin.  Thank you for bringing this to our attention, and for everything you do for the kitties.
 

2009/06/13

Fwd: [feral_cats] Costs on feral/stray spay-neuter around U.S.

I was speaking to one of our leading free clinic vets Sat. about the amount paid by many of the trappers in various communities for spay-neuter for the feral and strays. I commented that other communities seemed to be moving toward a $25 fee structure in general. here in SW Fla, the vets was $40-$55 and feel this is a huge bargain, citing their high cost of supplies.

I am wondering if any of you can give me more details on how much you pay,   that includes and how the provider manages to do it at a lower cost, if yours is low.

I told the vet that I would get back to her with specifics on where $25 surgeries are available and how the providers manage to do that.

Thanks so much, and thanks to all of you for helping the cats!


Discussing SB 250 & this list -- Gesine is fed-up




1) You absolutely are not getting this ordinance! and I don't know
how else to explain it to you! (have you read it?)

Many ordinances are not "killer squads out there enforcing them",
but activated by a complaint, or by something else, e.g. someone
gets a ticket and they say, oh, we're adding a fix-it-ticket to this,
for example. Take 32 minutes and listen to the radio interview
with Mancuso -- discussing similarity to auto tickets (have you
listened to that interview? which specifically discusses how this
bill is not a threat to TNR and feral cat colony caretakers & cats)

I don't think you have experience working in the neighborhoods,
cat-ocean inner-city -- it hasn't sounded like you "get" the dynamics.

Saying "an ordinance that isn't enforced is useless" demonstrates
that you're not understanding the whole dynamic! It will be a
TOOL for rescuers! And for ACs/shelters, it will be a tool, triggered
by a complaint; they're not going to go around looking.

2) You also aren't getting that this is a TEACHING LIST.
I am the main teacher, among other teachers here (mods and others).

Free expression can be easily misused, look at the scare campaign
(which apparently is winning) the opponents of SB 250 are running.

There are a zillion cat lists that are not moderated, and a zillion
that don't have a teaching purpose, and a zillion that don't have
one person dominating them.

My very long post earlier today, gave quite sufficient information
for anyone to realize, oh, my fears around this are groundless
(e.g. AC ALREADY has the power if they chose to go round up
feral cats, and they mostly don't)(and, the only feral colonies that
would be even affected by the bill, are if you are feeding a feral
colony in your personal backyard, then you need to s/n them, and
it doesn't have to be instantaneous).

3) I have been very disenheartened by the lack of critical thinking
I'm seeing, in TNR folk who haven't read the bill, just uncritically
read some opinion, and are taken in by scare tactics. I've seen this
locally, on this list, and further away. This happens to be one of
my "buttons" -- and this lack of critical thinking, lack of taking the
time to read a case, lack of seeing "who's against this bill?" (breeders!),
has really gotten to me. It is very disappointing to me.

I've spent hours reading, asking for clarification, emailing, etc.
I've had it! And I'm fed-up with TNR folk not doing the research to
see that this bill is what we want, would be a tool for us to use.
I'm still trying to change Becky Robinson of ACA's mind, as well.

4) Alice, in particular, you have sent me a number of hostile
emails off-list, and in this post you were also hostile.

Of course I'm not perfect. No one is. But my motivation for
doing this list is by gosh, I don't want other people making the
mistakes I did, when I was teaching myself to do TNR and rescue.
Yes, back when I was taking transit for miles through the snow to
do TNR, and all that.

So -- If you wish to discuss this particular bill more, please first
read up and listen up about it, then email me.

If you just can't stand my disagreeing with you, please find a list
that is more to your liking!

Gesine

********
> The point is to help cats and an ordinance that is not enforced is useless.  Mandatory spay neuter alone is a a small step but with out other things including enforcement what good is it.  I have read up on the issue of mandatory spay and neuter but I do not have big surprise yjr sdasme opinion as you. 

Why is it that every time especially me disagrees with you that we are wrong.  You may not be Christian but the only perfect person that walked this earth was and is Jesus and you are not him.  Discussion is one sided and also useless if you will not allow free expression.  

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Loyall pet food

looks like they mostly do dog food. The company is Nutrena
Looks like a relatively new line of food, to be sold in ag-retailers instead of places like PetSmart.
I don't know where you are, but I can find it in Central Ohio if I click on my store locator.
Looks like the parent company Nutrena comes out of the agri-business world rather than originating with dogs and cats.
It meets the AAFCO requirements.
Looking at the ingredients, it lists first Poultry by-product meal, which ain't great, but better than starting off with corn (which is the 2nd ingredient).

Its probably equivalent to your grocery store chain food.

I'd say thanks to whoever donated it and feed away, unless you have money to feed better. In that case, pass it off to someone who can't afford better (but still say thanks).

Merlin










Fwd: [feral_cats] CAT HEALTH QUESTION




My 9 yr-old Ebony and I have been fighting to keep her going for a couple
of weeks now. I wonder if any of you have experienced this and might have
some insight about what is causing all this, and how we might improve the
treatment.

It started out when she refused to eat and had violent, very loose
diarrhea--bloody and mucousy. Trip to the vet and blood panel revealed her kidneys
were failing. Vet kept her on IV fluids and whatever else for 4 days, sent
her home to my care when a new blood test said the kidneys were almost
normal. A week later, her kidneys were fine and her liver was off the chart.
I give her fluids every day, force feed her 4 + times a day, give her
vitamins and a new med for the liver. Diarrhea still present but thicker (I feed
her a mix of baby cereal, yogurt and kidney care cat food). Yesterday I
thought the battle was won when she actually took 3 small bites of Fancy
Feast, but she hasn't had one since.

She sleeps with me and purrs, rubs and generally loves me as usual, she is
very gentle and easy to treat. The ones among you who have been to my
house met her as my "welcoming committee of one". She was a bottle fed baby
from her 2nd day, and has always been a little on the fragile side.

Any input would be very, very appreciated!


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