cats and dogs anything

cats galore

2009-08-11T20:26:00.001-07:00

I bought my house in Bristol Ct last year and am steadily getting all the stray cats speutered.
There are a lot in my neighbourhood.
A couple of days ago I saw a very skinny orange cat come into my yard. I immediately ran out with some kibble.
He sniffed and turned away.
Skinniest cat I've ever seen.
I ran back in and got some wet food which he accepted and slowly ate. He rubbed on me too.
After he ate and drank he slowly made his way across the street. I could kick myself for not getting him.
His ears were all bloodly and lots of dirt inside of them
I have been keeping a close eye out and last night I saw him again slowly walking across the street from my house. I had missed him :<(
I got some wet food in a paper plate to try to feed him again but couldn't find him.
While I was walking down the street with my sister a small calico came up to us so I gave her some of the food which she gobbled up.
When we were walking back home she was still there so we made a decision.
We made a trail of the wet food and she kept following us and eating.
After a bit my sister picked her up and walked to our house with her. She strained a little but stayed in Jiggy's arms.
So now she is in a crate in my garage and will be spayed soon.
She is a very nice kitten and lets me pick her up easily.
Hope she's not already spayed but I'll find out soon enough.
Good kitten.
And good orange boy for helping me find her.
Now I hope I can get him.
I won't make the same mistake twice.
Lynn

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Trying to tell is a cat has been spayed

2009-07-30T19:19:00.001-07:00

Trying to tell if a cat has been spayed June 30, 2009

I used to work in the spay clinic at our HS.

We can't palpate to find a uterus unless the cat is calm, most rescue cats aren't used to exams and won't stand for their belly being palpated, and many cats that are used to exams don't stand
for it very either.

We had to knock out the cat and shave its belly usually from sternum to thigh, side to side, then look for a scar. Some vets cut high, some low, some on the midline, but some from the side, so a small patch shaved won't tell you much if you miss the right spot.

The scar may mean the cat is spayed, but it may mean that it had surgery for something else, or even that it has been scratched deeply. With the use of glue instead of sutures, some spay
scars are indistinguishable from a straight scratch.

Maybe we would see a tattoo, but you would be surprised that there is no universal spay tattoo. Most
clinics do not have the time to follow up and figure out if the tattoo is an owner's mark, a litter number from a breeder, an id for showrings, or any of the other things it might mean (biker cat?).

While they are out, shaved and flat on their back, you could palpate, but a healthy uterus is very slim and it isn't a roundish object like a human, it is 2 elongated arms, which could be mistaken
for guts, if you felt them at all.

Normally, if you feel the uterus, it needs to come out as it is probably diseased, and if you don't feel it you need to open the cat up and look for it.

Ultrasound is expensive and time consuming, in most spay clinics a good vet would spay 3-4 cats in the time it takes to do one, and they don't have the extra staff or even the equipment.

In most high volume clinics it is just faster to shave and open up. Yes it may be unnecessary
surgery, but it is better for the cat than getting preggers is.

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Cat Ordinances in Colorado - somewhat OT, long rant

2009-07-28T05:10:00.001-07:00

This may be a tad off topic, so I apologize if it is. I was wondering if anyone knows what the ordinances are in CO, specifically the Pueblo and Colorado Springs areas? I am planning on relocating to one of these areas before the end of the year and would like to know. I have searched but maybe I am not looking in the right places. I want everything as perfect as I can get it before I take the huge step in purchasing property in a whole new state. There are two acreages I am looking at, both clear out of the way of city limits. But nontheless, I still want to be completely educated. As like alot of rescuers, I have a large number of cats, and I will be taking as many of my ferals as I possibly can (there are several other caretakers for both the colonies I work with, so ones that, sadly, I cannot take will still be very well cared for).

I just really want to have all the info. I can in advance so i can do more research and make my final decision as to which property is best. One is 25 acres, the other is 30. There's a HUGE barn at both places that would be ideal for the 'sanctuary' and I can easily add on 'out pens' for them that will be secure and safe. Where I am located now, I fear every day for my 'herd'. I am outside of city limits, but just barely!!! The city limit sign boarders my property. Ordinances here are only 3 cats per household... more if you get a liscense. I would have no problems in going through all he trouble of getting the said liscense, but AC here literately makes it almost IMPOSSIBLE to get one. Seriously it is VERY hard and that is SAD for those of us who DO take extraordinarly good care of our cats. I so just want to be able to leave for work every day and not be in complete fear at all times that I will have a message from AC when I get home. Maybe I am just too paranoid, but I have seen it happen to MANY GOOD pet owners... not hoarders in any sence of the word. And with the laws here, cats can be seized for whatever reason they want to give. All my cats are fixed (aside of a few unspays, due to serious heart probles in which I do not want to risk anesthia), vaccinated, very healthy (aside of the ones who DO have serious health problems but ARE getting the proper vet care) and very well fed & loved. Our living enviornment is kept almost spotless... this is what I believe in and these cats are so important to me, I want them to have the best. But even with all of this, if just ONE person made a call for whatever reason, AC could come in at any time and take them... no matter how clean, how cared for, or no matter what amount of proof you have for the vet care. I just want to no longer be a huge knot of stress and fear every time I leave my property. I have worked with several other rescuers in my area to try to get better laws, etc. and no matter what we do, nothing changes. The Humane Society here is the exact oppisite of the name!! It is that bad.
Okay, now that I have rambeled long enough, I will apologize. :) This board has been very helpful and I am glad to be part of it. ANY, and I do mean any, info. anyone can share will be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much for listening to my whining! :)

cat died

2009-07-26T20:13:00.001-07:00

My mother brought her 3rd stray in to be spayed at a feral cat/low cost clinic yesterday and they called her to say that the cat died. They said her heart gave out but that there was no apparent condition. She was pregnant, probably less than a year old and showed up about 3-4 months ago. Not touchable but not feral. Had clear eyes, no nasel discharge or congestionj but long fur a bit "scruffy" and slept a lot on the porch chair rarely interacting with the other cats. My mother said she "looked sad" all of the time. She also noticed once that while she slept she seemed to be breathing heavy but thought that was maybe because she was pregnant. She was not large with kittens but because of her age we just assumed she was pregnant so she was not visably pregnant.

Even though the vet said her heart seemed fine prior to surgey do these low cost clinics cut care to make them low cost? I helped out at one of the clinics and they did twenty something cats in one day. This is not strictly for ferals but also for low income folks to have their pets fixed.

My mother was quite upset and my father said that if we would have not had her fixed she wouldn't have died! Any thoughts?!

Dawn
Buffalo, ny

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In Danger Of Burnout

2009-07-23T08:31:00.001-07:00

Ugh, I feel like I'm getting burned out doing rescue work - not with
cats, but with people! I haven't been on much the last couple weeks, and
always feel like I'm missing things, but I've been just too stressed out
to cope much with email. Please say some encouraging words, or at least
whisper some meaningless platitudes, before I decide to kill someone and
make it look like an accident! Namely, one of the people described
below. Help me keep my chin up. I have 13 cats at my house now,
including 2 extremely rambunctious kittens-in-taming, 2 fosters who are
proving very difficult to place due to behavior issues at clinics, 2
hospice cases, and one elderly new intake with serious health problems.
I'm absolutely maxed out physically and emotionally, kitten season is
still in full swing, and I just can't deal with leaving a few behind.

So, forgive me if I take a few minutes to ventilate to a (usually)
sympathetic chorus here...

We're having serious and increasing problems with the property owner at
the main colony where I feed/care/trap, problems which may soon lead to
a massive tragedy of starving cats with no place to turn. We'll call her
"Cora". Her ethnicity is immaterial to my feelings about her, but
knowing it will help you to imagine some of her quotes in her own voice.
Cora is a 75-ish southern-born African-American woman. Came up hard,
worked hard all her life, earned herself a bit of the American Dream -
owns the house free and clear, has a nicer car than mine, no debts,
etc... She is relatively uneducated, but quite shrewd and, frankly,
manipulative. She is in ill health, and has suffered a number of minor
strokes over the last few years. Her memory is so poor that she no
longer goes out much. She has forgotten where she lived while driving
home on a couple of occasions and gotten lost for hours.

Anyhow, Cora does like animals, and she started feeding a significant
colony of feral cats several years ago. They bred out of control, of
course, and a couple of acquaintances of ours (people we met through cat
rescue) began a TNR effort, started buying food for her, etc... Last
year, she decided that she was getting too old and sick to keep feeding
the cats. Ah, but instead of asking for help directly, she made a lot of
vague threats about "I'm jus' gonna stop feeding 'em, let 'em wander
off", etc... Well, we told her in no uncertain terms that the cats would
NOT wander off - she'd have a backyard full of starving, sick cats all
winter. We finally read between the lines and realized that she was
asking for help. So, we gave it, generously, and are still giving it. My
wife and I have completely taken over the feeding of this colony. We
have come to her house and put out food 3 days a week, every week, for
the last year. We clean her porch where the food is, wash the pans,
spray for roaches, fill the water dishes, wash the bedding in the cat
shelters, water her plants and watch her house while she's away, etc,
etc... We've bought her beer, given her money (to cover the "light
bills" from when we trap at night - $20 to cover a perhaps fifty-cent
increase in her electric usage, among other things), kissed her buns
until they're rosy, etc, etc... We've also stepped up the TNR effort
greatly, we trap in the neighborhood at least once a month (more during
kitten season). We pulled about 25 kittens last summer, still haven't
found homes for all of them (some still semi-feral, trapped as older
kibs), but we've only seen 9 so far this year, 5 of which have already
been trapped, and 3 of them placed. We're making excellent progress,
only 2 or 3 known females left to trap, the really elusive ones. She's
picked a hell of a time to bail on us, but it looks like she's going to.

In return for our efforts, Cora has been, for the most part (except on
very rare good days) rude, mean, ungrateful, demanding, and cranky to us
and everyone we work with. So be it. She's old and sick and
cantankerous. I do it for the cats, and tolerate her as necessary.

It's gotten worse. We think Cora is really losing her mind now. There
are kittens that need to be trapped while they're still tamable, but the
last couple times we've trapped, she's complained bitterly that we "keep
her up all night" and "run up her light bill". It's beyond reason - we
work exclusively outdoors, gave up trapping from her utility room a
while back. The motion-activated yard lights are tripped by the cats,
all night every night, not by us - I even reduced the sensitivity on
them for her. I now have night-vision gear (COOL!) available to me on
occasion, and don't really need lights at all. We're extremely quiet and
stealthy, obviously - we're trapping! She can't sleep because her house
is a hundred degrees and she refuses to turn up the cooler. We've told
her again and again that we can leave the premises any time if she wants
to go to bed - all she has to do is ask us to go. It's her house, after all.

And worse. Now she says she's "too tired" and "just wants the cats to go
away". Tired of what? Watching someone else (us) take on her
responsibilities for her? She doesn't have to do jack, except
occasionally put out some milk. Sometimes if we're late getting there,
Cora thinks we aren't coming and feeds that cats, but we always come.
That's her own forgetfulness, not my problem, but she's making it a
problem for the cats. She's threatening to make us stop feeding and
trapping there, wants us to "find someone else in the neighborhood"
where we can put food. Uh-huh. Good luck - at least my wife speaks
fluent Spanish and can actually communicate with some of the neighbors,
but I don't think we'll get very far.

We'll keep trying. We'll try to go over earlier, before she gets crabby
late in the day. We bought her some beer we'll give her next time we see
her. I have counted among my acquaintances over the years a number of
rather cantankerous older African-American ladies, so I have a
reasonably high tolerance, but this is getting out of hand. What does
she WANT from us? We've totally absolved her of any physical
responsibility for caring for the cats. We've put in hundreds of hours,
thousands of dollars in blood and treasure. I'm losing four very cute
young kittens which could be easily adopted, due to her bad humor, we'll
just have to TNR them if I can't get them in the next few weeks. She's
playing with our emotions, just being angry and manipulative for the
sake of being angry and manipulative, threatening the cats' well-being.
I keep telling her that if she makes us stop feeding them, there IS no
alternative. They are completely dependent on the food we leave there.
She will have a back porch full of sick, starving cats over the winter.
They will die by the dozens, right in front of her eyes. I'm starting to
doubt whether she cares, though she obviously did at one time. I'm
beginning to actively detest her, and hate having to deal with her in
the course of caring for the cats. That doesn't feel very good, let me
tell ya...

We just don't know what to do. If she goes south on us, a lot of very
sweet cats that we've spent a lot of time and effort caring for, will be
totally hosed.

Arrrghhh!

And the next bit...

I went to the vet to get one of my kitties an RCP booster Friday a week
ago. A nice, chatty middle-aged woman sat next to us in the waiting
room. She had a gorgeous Snowshoe Siamese in a carrier, and I got to
talking to her about her cat. She told me she was 18 years old. She
seemed rather sad and upset, especially when I told her I thought her
cat looked quite alert and healthy for her age, and would probably live
to be 25. I mentioned that I'm a cat rescue volunteer. She said, "Oh,
can you please, please take Rockie? She's about to be euthanized!"

I said, "Huh?!? Why?" Well, she started peeing on the carpet. Of course
she did - the woman's life is a nightmare. Lost her job, poor health,
mother dying, etc... Her home is in turmoil. The cat picked up on the
stress and started pissing everywhere. She was going to kill this
gorgeous, gentle elderly cat. Rockie's death was the very next
appointment - the assistant had already put her file in the vet's door
pocket. She had about 5 minutes left.

So, I made a snap decision, the only one possible under the
circumstances. I went to the vet's office with one kitty, and left with
2! The owner gave me $20, and some food, litter, the cat's bed and toys
and stuff when I stopped by later.

Yes, she IS sick. She's in renal failure, probably due to
hyperthyroidism and resultant hypertension. Diabetes also a possibility,
not sure until we get lab results. I'm pretty certain her condition can
be managed, seems healthy and active otherwise, but it's gonna cost me
(and my saintly mother, who covers a lot of unexpected medical bills for
my rescue cats) a pretty penny to determine exactly what's wrong with
her and start treatment. About $160 for lab work, plus whatever meds she
needs. Jesus, the euthanasia would have cost $90 + disposal. So, her
owner was willing to put up that much cash to kill this lovely,
affectionate cat that she's had for almost 20 years, but not just a
little more to try and save her? So, someone else's responsibility for
the well-being of a cat or cats, again, falls to me...

Arrrghhh!

Anyhow, Rockie is very sweet, cuddly, purr-y, talkative (kept us up a
lot last night, typical elderly Siamese), and clearly has serious
metabolic and/or kidney issues. It's hot here, and she's lying on the
cool floor in the bathroom with her head next to the water dish. She's
skeletally thin - her records list her as 6 pounds as of April (I'd be
surprised if she weighs 5 now), but 13.5 pounds in 2006. Pupils fixed
and dilated. Constantly peeing and thirsty, but hasn't peed outside the
box here at all. An elderly female cat losing crazy weight and going
into renal failure from skyrocketing blood pressure (indicated by
dilated pupils) and abnormal protein metabolism, eating and drinking
constantly - feels like a hyperthyroid problem. I have an appointment on
Tuesday morning for blood work, and I'll have them give her some sub-Q
fluids. She's in bad shape, and I hope she makes it until then. She's
also a very finicky eater, only likes 2 kinds of Fancy Feast - she'll
have to go on K/D low protein food, and won't be happy.

Sure, I'm totally psyched that we saved her life, literally snatched her
from the jaws of death, but - MORE STRESS! It's not her that bothers me,
but her OWNER. How could ANYONE put down a cat like this, who should
have been diagnosed and treated 5 years ago?!? I sympathize with
financial problems and such, but really...

Sorry to go on like this, but I gotta talk to someone. Bitching to my
friends and fellow volunteers isn't fair. It's just preaching to the
choir and they all have the same issues, they already know the story. I
know everyone here does, too, but I have to blow off this steam somewhere...

At least my vet recognizes me as a candidate for sainthood and knocks
off a lot of $40 exam fees and such. I'm starting to think that my
Buddhist mother is correct - I'm probably the current living incarnation
of some ancient Lama, the Bodhisattva of Forlorn Felines...

-Kiff

--

Registering colonies, SB 250, etc.

2009-07-21T23:01:00.001-07:00

Gesine gives up on this topic here! Registering colonies, SB 250, etc.

Hi all,

OK, I give up! Here, that is.

I wish I could have you all walk with me through the inner city
cat ocean wilds of Oakland, CA. I think then you'd see why I am
so passionately FOR proposed ordinances like SB 250 (which
is a "mandatory s/n, won't harass feral cat caretakers, non-punitive,
etc." ordinance).

I often disagree wildly with Nathan Winograd, and I believe he's not
been "in the trenches" as much as he thinks he has. He's done a lot
of good work, but then he messes it up IMNSHO. And you've already
heard that I have not succeeded in changing Alley Cat Allies' mind
about SB 250 -- they're citing a study that most owned cats are already
s/n -- well, sure, but NOT in inner-city-cat-ocean Oakland, CA!!

I've spoken with several animal control directors who say SB 250
would NOT be used by them to harass feral cat people. What this
kind of ordinance would do would essentially be one more tool for
the in-the-streets TNR person.

And the opponents are nearly all dog breeders!!!!

I'm frustrated since I've spent quite a few hours researching this
recently, many hours in the past, have called & asked various folks
about it, and STILL, backyard breeders are winning.

So. What I ask you all to consider, is, please, maybe some of the
"big names in rescue" like Winograd, might be incorrect in some
areas.

And go in person and TALK with your local exec director of the
main local shelter, and ask about stuff like this.

Gesine

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The Feral Cat Relocation Experience

2009-07-21T10:15:00.001-07:00

Well, I have been gone such a long time! I have been relocating some ferals from bad areas in the next city to my yard. Some were ill and all have been speutered with a "program" at most reasonable prices. Ill

ones have been given medication. Cats are in as good a condition as they can be. We let the first couple go about 3 days ago. One stuck like glue to the point I am almost falling from him wrapping around my legs. Another male took off and returned a couple of days later and now seems to stay close. There are four others about to be released. I think I have held them in cages on my patio at least 4 weeks. Trying to keep flies from the food and keeping the cages clean and dry and cool and litter scooped is a major job. Adding this work to my other cat care has been something I didn't have time for.

I have kept the cages dry by using election signs to cover them with zip ties and some hang down from the top on longer ties and can be flipped up over the top in better weather. I have elections signs on the top with large overhangs and can put bent pieces of election signs
tucked under these for an "awning" type of shelter from the sun. I don't want them to bake in hot weather.

Cleaning and feeding has to be managed with cats that are often not friendly. I have a long "grabber" like people use who can't bend over. I use it to remove empty dishes and move things around the cage. Going in I lead with a bowl of food and once that has their attention at the back of the cage I quickly change water and pull the litter box out for scooping. Sometimes it helps to feed in two amounts to have more time to work while they are distracted eating.

I also use those carriers that have a removable door. I put that in the cage and when they go in I put the door on and remove the carrier and the cat for a more thorough cleaning. I also use this to move ferals from one place to another. I even tie a string to the door and pull it shut after they go in the carrier, on some of them. Some cats have a very long reach and their nails are lethal!

We have just completed an area to the side of my cat building in the back that is paved with slates and covered with a tarp from building to fence that acts like a roof. I am using this as a holding area for recovering TNRs because the other cat people have no place to leave them. Their routine had been to leave the females on the street covered over in the back of a pick up truck overnight. A couple of the TNR people do this. Having this space also means I will no longer put recovering TNRs in my basement.

The good news is that there are finally some TNR programs in my area where I don't have to pay $150 a cat at the vet to TNR a cat. Two days ago I even ran into my second cousin that I haven't seen in 9 years. She was there with a feral cat in a trap. Turns out she has four cats and three dogs and is well into TNR. I had no idea she was also a cat lady.

This relocation thing is much more work than I expected. My yard is going to have too many and I am calling an end to it although my friend wants to bring two more pregnant females, after spaying. I hate to insist but they will have to go back where they are. These are tiny yards. Even though we are providing shelters and I am feeding I think there will be too many. And....I cannot take another 3 weeks of this. Not to mention the great cost of food for many more cats for the rest of their lives.

Regarding shelter. Suncast makes an outdoor seat in two sizes to store patio items, etc. One is the size of large chest about 40" long, and the other is half
that. Some stores have had sales. My rescue partner bought me a number of these. They come in tan or white. We are driling six inch holes with a hole saw and putting flaps over them for shelter with zip ties. For flaps I use the plastic doors I have saved from litter boxes. They are much nicer looking shelters than the "tub in tub" design. I can also use a large chest to put food in to shelter it from the rain and snow in my alley. If you face the hole away from the public it just looks like a storage seat.
I think they run $40+.

I had been keeping some cats in my basement and some TNR recovery. I am now fighting a major flea problem in the basement. This is a first. I am almost done moving the last of 6 cats out so I can treat it more thoroughly. I have also decided it is not good to have cats in an "out of the way location" where they cannot be given enough attention. I am rearranging the cat building at the office to hold more cats there. I will remove the large cage in the basement. I do not like having any cats in cages. Their personalities to not improve. In some cases it has been unavoidable. My costs for Revolution and all other types of flea products have been about $1000. This includes Revolution for one month. Vet says it take about 24 hours for Revolution to kill fleas on the cat so one basement feral is outside in a cage until the time is up and I will bring her back in upstairs. I let her out of the basement several times but she always came back in. She is very petite and the other cats would chase her. She may be the original flea source. I never had them before.

Everyday people contact me from my Petfinder page and want me to take kittens or cats. It is really sad. People are calling me from NY, north of NYC and I am in NJ! I try to make suggestions and some appreciate it. Others want someone to "come and pick them up".

I don't know how I have survived without our list all this time.
Heaven only knows what I have missed!!

Pam In NJ

Need some suggestions please

2009-07-17T19:20:00.001-07:00

We have been spaying/neutering cats in our yardneighborhood for some time but recently someone has complained to the Health Department (we are in Nassau County NY) about our feeding them

First we received a letter that gave us a phone number to call. I called and was told it is ok to feed ferals, but the feeding must be done in a certain way (feedings must be supervised and no more than 30 minutes: food must be elevated 12 inches off the ground: any food not eaten must be disposed of & dishes removed), although water may be left out at all times.

We did exactly what we were told to do, but now have received another letter today saying that we may be inspected and fined for the feedings.

We have three litters of kittens (obviously we have not spayed every female in the neighborhood yet) and I am very worried. The letter also states that neighbors finding cats on their property have the right to trap and bring to animal control (which is a death sentence).

I was planning to call again on Monday morning to ask what we are supposed to be doing that we have not done. Is that the right strategy? Should I ask who has been complaining? We do the feeding in a back yard that is not visable from the street, so it must be a direct neighbor or the sanitation department (we used to have our garbage cans back there but have moved them streetside).

I am sure no one cares that we feed them, but they are probably upset that they wander through their yards and may use their flower beds as a litter box.

Any thoughts or suggestions? I am absolutely terrified that these animals may be trapped and removed. I am also terrified that our indoor cats may be at risk in some way.

Many of these cats could be tamed and placed in homes, but my husband has said we cannot bring another cat in the house. The kittens are mostly handle-able, although some are still fearful.

Please...any thoughts? Is there anyone in my area with experience in dealing with the department?

I'd also make sure to try and talk, one-on-one and respectfully, with the neighbors and the sanitation people.

The SUREST way to gain support for cats and to defuse complaints, is to identify the reason for the complaints and show that you want to work in community with your neighbors/community. And when you have a well-managed colony, you are on really excellent footing to approach the neighbors. As you said, you've done what you're being instructed to do, and you are probably more than willing to explain how the roaming cats can be deterred from flower beds, how they are actually healthier and safer than some of the other creatures who visit those flower beds, and so on.

I would work on making allies out of the neighbors, because if they know better, they won't resort to bringing in outside authorities.

__._,_.___

Aggressive outdoor pet cat

2009-07-13T02:18:00.001-07:00

The people who live a couple of houses away from us let their two pet cats (neutered males) roam outside. They come into our yard occasionally, and they also come eat the food I put out for the other feral cats. It irritates me a little, because these guys have a home and regular food indoors, but I figure that as long as they don't eat everything, I'll tolerate it. It's not like I can do much about it anyway.

The problem is that sometimes they are very aggressive toward Mittens, who is the feral cat who regularly hangs around our house. Earlier this evening she was napping on a low wall in front of our house. We saw one of the neighbor's cats in the backyard coming toward the house. So we went to look out a front window to see if he came around to the front of the house, which he did. Mittens was awake and watching him, and hissed when he approached. She got very low to the ground. Will sort of sat and watched her, and then all of a sudden he pounced. She got away and went up onto our porch. At this point I decided to intervene as Will was also heading to the porch. I went outside and did the Mean Nasty Human act, waving my arms at Will and shooing him, and told him to go home. I didn't yell, but he decided not to mess with me and left. Mittens seemed fine after he left, so I don't think he actually hurt her at all.

I feel kind of bad for shooing him away like I did; he is a pet, after all, and I don't want him to be afraid of me. And I'm not sure I really did the right thing, coming to Mittens' aid like that. She has to deal with these cats all the time when I'm not home and not watching over her. I really wish the neighbor would keep their cats indoors. They seem to have more confidence outdoors, and are very bold. There was a time when Mittens was the bully, but lately she has been the bullied, rather than the bullier.

SUFFOCATION HAZARD

2009-07-10T18:42:00.001-07:00

from my friend

I have been rescuing feral cats for years and do TNR on a regular basis. The friendly cats are taken inside - some are kept as pets and others are adopted out. I keep four FIV+ kitties in a bedroom, away from the FIV- cats in my home.

A few days ago, one of the FIV+ cats went missing.? I searched high and low (dresser drawers, closets, vents, etc) and figured that he escaped when I opened a door. Then last night, I was cleaning out the litter box and went to add more fresh litter. When I opened the plastic tub of litter, I found the cat dead inside. I was absolutely stunned and saddened as you can imagine. I have never heard of such a thing, I surfed the net and couldn't find any reference regarding this situation. I did see that cats can suffocate if litter gets into their mouth and nose, because it clumps when it gets wet.

The litter that I use is Fresh Step Scoopable in the 28 pound plastic tub. The tub was half full. My theory is that the cat lifted up the loosely fitting top and climbed in. Then one of the other cats must have jumped on top of the lid?snapping it closed. My cats climb into anything that is accessible (kitchen cabinets, drawers, etc) and then remove items.??

The dead cat had litter?all over his face, so he either suffocated from the litter itself or because the lid formed an airtight seal. He started to decompose, but there was no smell. I am sure the scented litter covered up?the?smell as well as it's absorption abilities.

I looked at the outside of the tub and did see a warning regarding babies drowning by falling into a tub partially filled with water. Nothing else.

I know that other litter companies (Tidy Cats, etc) use similar plastic tubs. There must be a warning regarding this hazard to our feline friends. The lids should be redesigned so the cats can't get in or it should be easy for them to get out. I know that this is a freak accident, but something should be done to avoid this in the future.

For now, I would suggest removing the tubs to a place in the home, where the cats can't get to it. Or putting a heavy weight on top of the lid. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.? Thanks.

Trivially! Cats' sense of smell VASTLY better -- cats recognize fam

2009-07-06T05:17:00.001-07:00

This is exactly what I am hoping for. It happened again tonight. All

of a sudden Blazen meows at the door - Leo is sitting next to him and
doesn't do anything. Blazen was neutered at 6 months, Leo at 1.5
years (that's when I found him). I poked my head out the door to see
if she was there, she poked her head out from the railing, then sat
at the bottom of the stairs and looked up at me, both ears on alert.
She rubbed against the handrail a few times. I would calling to her
but she didn't come closer so I eventually went inside. Tomorrow I am
setting the trap and bringing her in. What signs can I look for to
see if she is feral vs a scared lost cat?

When I first noticed Blazen in the backyard I thought it was one
kitten. Then when I moved the food dish closer to the house to make
it easier to catch him I noticed it was two kittens. When the bowl
was at the tree line one would always be hiding, but now that the
bowl was in the middle of the lawn they both were in the open. As I
was trying to figure out how to catch them without scaring off one
cat they showed up on my porch staring in my screen door. I opened
the door and made a little food trail. They followed it in, explored
a bit, ran in and out a few times, then curled up under my dining
room table and went to sleep. Since them Blazen runs if we come to
the door - he doesn't want to go out again! So I am hoping this is
him calling to another cat saying it is worth it to come inside.

Daniela

Twilight

2009-07-06T05:13:00.001-07:00

From the description of Twilight she sounds like a tame cat who was

either lost or dumped because she was pregnant. Irresponsible people
who have money for everything but their pets often dump preg. females
rather than spay them.... Thank you for spaying her!!

I believe she will let you pet her. A cat who talks to you and rolls
on your patio is tame, not feral, and it sounds like she wants to be
petted. Try petting her on her back, not her tummy, or if you are
hesitant to pet her with your hand, use a long handled bath brush.
I've gained the love and trust of many a stray cat by using a bath
brush........ They love it.

Lorrie

On 07-03, hconrad2 wrote:

Here is some more information about the cat. I am in no way trying
to tame her for adoption for myself or anyone else. I have two 1
year old cats at home that I adopted last year.I cannot have
anymore cats. I was just curious as to whether or not it was
possible for a feral to become friendly with the caretaker(myself).
I became interested in tnr after I found out she had kittens in my
yard. I know I needed to give the kittens a chance at adoption and
spay the mom with the intent to return her back to her original
living space(my yard). The person who took her and her kittens in
said she definatey was not tame and therefore unadoptable. There is
no real colony, just her and the father who I see in my
neighborhood every once in a while. He runs when he sees me.

She is a young black cat who we have named Twilight. since her
kittens have been gone and she has been spayed(1week ago) she has
been hanging out on my patio all night and comes up to me and talks
and rolls around on the ground. I have not tried to pet her because
I don't want to get bit. I will continue to feed her as long as she
calls my place her home. Her kittens will soon be up for adoption
when they are healthy enough and socialized. I am just happy that I
got to them before the animal warden did. thanks!

__._,_.___

feral behavior different in colony than in a cage?

2009-06-23T02:12:00.001-07:00

My friend who team feeds a colony was out of town this past weekend and asked me to feed her colony for her. This is the same colony where we got the cat who bit me, and we recently returned after she was spayed and quarantined for 10 days.

One of the cats there, a pretty tuxedo cat, is tame to the feeders, but when I helped TNR him and held him at my house in a cage, he growled and wanted to kill me. We had to hang on to him for about a week after his neuter since he had a nasty head wound and we wanted it to heal up some before returning him. When my friend came to visit Tuxedo at my house he was tame, purred for her, wanted scratches, etc., but if I got near the cage he growled and spit and tried his best to act dangerous (which I seriously respected). This was a couple months ago.

When I went out to the colony to feed this past weekend, Tuxedo and another cat were there waiting for me. The other cat has been friendly to me the 3 other times I have been at the colony. Tuxedo ran up to me and wanted not just food, but serious petting! He would purr and rub all over me, even to the point of ignoring the food to get pets. None of this hang back and see that the other cat thought it was OK, he was right in there for attention!

Is this common behavior? I know that some ferals get friendly to their regular feeders and won't trust other people, but this cat hadn't seen me since I had him at my place and there he wanted to do serious harm to me. This is also a bit discouraging, if they remain ferocious in a cage, but back in their home turf they are sweet.

3 eight weeks old littermates, various stages of taming

2009-06-16T23:49:00.001-07:00

3 kittens. 2 males fixed yesterday, 1 female fixed last Friday. They have been living in a garage for the past 3 weeks. New caretaker didn't listen and let them run the garage, even though I brought two cages, and all the fixins. I forgive him, he's new to this and is learning. He'll get there.

I got permission to relocate to another caretaker with lots of taming experience. I will bring them to the new foster tomorrow afternoon(Wednesday). They are all at my house tonight.

The male, solid black one, is pretty tame after a few hours in my house but still runs if I move too fast. One, the female, I have in a cage because she immediately set up shop inside the recliner's mechanism. The other orange male lurks and let's me get close, closer, can barely touch, then runs. I have been able to pick that one up a few times tonight.

So, when they go to their new foster family, do we cage them all? Together? Seperately? I don't think the orange one male and female can go in a cage together because she was all hissy with him and kinda violent when i tried to put him in with her. They were seperated since Sunday evening. I have enough cages to loan the foster mom if they need to be seperated.

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Alley Cat Allies -- Drop trap - concerns

2009-06-15T23:37:00.001-07:00

Gesine wrote:
> Hi Kiff and all,
>
> Kiff, how about you write to Alley Cat Allies, with your detailed
> info?

Funny you should suggest that, Gesine - I have a letter to ACA prepared
already, and will send it in the next couple of days.

Here's the text. Any suggestions?

To Whom It May Concern:

Let me first say that I greatly admire your organization and all the
good work you do. I'm a feral trapper/caretaker, and also serve as vice
president of New Mexico Animal Friends, a small no-kill cat and dog
rescue group out here in Albuquerque. You folks are super, and I refer
people to your website for feral trapping instructions at least 3 times
a week.

However, I have some grave concerns about the design of the drop trap
you're selling on your website. I'm a skilled and experienced drop
trapper, and I believe your trap is much too heavy. The weight listed on
the website is 23 pounds. That's more than enough falling weight to
break the paws and tails of adult cats, and could squash a small kitten
flat. If the cat bolted as the trap came down, and it fell across their
back, it might snap their spine. I realize that the cat is supposed to
be fully inside before dropping the trap, but anyone who's ever used a
drop trap extensively knows that's impossible to guarantee. There's
always a tail tip or paw sticking out, or the cat tries to bolt.

For comparison, I have a home-built drop trap of the classic "HubCats"
design. No, it doesn't fold, which is the brilliant part about your
design. It's a simple frame made from thin strips of pine, and covered
with heavy nylon athletic netting. It has a hinged flap at the back to
anchor it in place – you put a cement block on the flap. My trap weighs
approximately 11 pounds, and I can easily lift it with one finger. The
flap is made of heavy plywood, and accounts for about 3 pounds of the
total. That's not "suspended weight" – it doesn't fall when the trap is
triggered, just sits on the ground. The suspended weight of the trap is
only about 8 pounds. I've trapped scores of cats without injury.

When I built my trap, I made it as light as possible, and tested it to
make sure it wouldn't hurt. I set it up on a concrete surface and
dropped it on my own fingertips. It smarts a bit, but would never cause
any significant injury. By contrast, ALL of the weight of your trap
design is suspended weight – it doesn't use an anchor flap. That's 23
pounds falling on a kitten's tiny paw, on pavement. Try that on your own
fingers sometime. Go on – I double-dog dare you! An acquaintance of mine
bought one of your traps, and reports that it will flatten a soda can.
That's /way/ too heavy to be safe. I have an unabridged dictionary which
weighs 14 pounds – imagine that falling on a cat's tail!

In conclusion, I am happy to see that someone is actually marketing a
commercially-made drop trap (they're hard to come by unless you build
your own). However, I seriously think you need to re-visit your design.
Since by selling these online, you're putting them in the hands of
amateurs without trapping experience, I am terribly afraid that the
result will be an excess of injured cats and possibly even fatal accidents.

Sincerely,

- Kiff LaBar-Shelton

,,,>^..^<,,, To the world, you are just another person. To a rescued
animal, you are the world.

Gesine wrote:
> Hi Kiff and all,
>
> Kiff, how about you write to Alley Cat Allies, with your detailed
> info?
>
> Gesine
>
>

Feral Cats being trapped at North Carolina A&T Univers

2009-06-14T18:41:00.001-07:00

A quick update....I went over there yesterday about noon...some of the traps that were tripped the night before arounf 10pm, were still sitting there unattended for at least 14 hours. If a cat had been in a trap for that long, it could have been devastating.

The traps were checked again around 9pm and a cat was inside one of them....somehow it got out.....don't know how

We did find a litter of kittens playing near one of the dorms, traps were set up to get them out of there. Then we need to find Mama and get her Spayed.

The local Fox TV station is going to do a story Monday..they are great people here, they are supporters of our group.

Hope Alley Cat Allies can get involved before too many are killed. I just do NOT trust this PMI. Right on their website they say they do not trap cats and dogs....so what are Feral Cats??????

Thanks again,
Amy
Three things in life are certain;
death, taxes, and cats helping
to make the bed >^..^<

Hi Amy,
I have sent an email to Chancellor Martin. Thank you for bringing this to our attention, and for everything you do for the kitties.

Fwd: [feral_cats] Costs on feral/stray spay-neuter around U.S.

2009-06-13T20:28:00.001-07:00

I was speaking to one of our leading free clinic vets Sat. about the amount paid by many of the trappers in various communities for spay-neuter for the feral and strays. I commented that other communities seemed to be moving toward a $25 fee structure in general. here in SW Fla, the vets was $40-$55 and feel this is a huge bargain, citing their high cost of supplies.

I am wondering if any of you can give me more details on how much you pay, that includes and how the provider manages to do it at a lower cost, if yours is low.

I told the vet that I would get back to her with specifics on where $25 surgeries are available and how the providers manage to do that.

Thanks so much, and thanks to all of you for helping the cats!

Discussing SB 250 & this list -- Gesine is fed-up

2009-06-13T19:39:00.001-07:00

1) You absolutely are not getting this ordinance! and I don't know
how else to explain it to you! (have you read it?)

Many ordinances are not "killer squads out there enforcing them",
but activated by a complaint, or by something else, e.g. someone
gets a ticket and they say, oh, we're adding a fix-it-ticket to this,
for example. Take 32 minutes and listen to the radio interview
with Mancuso -- discussing similarity to auto tickets (have you
listened to that interview? which specifically discusses how this
bill is not a threat to TNR and feral cat colony caretakers & cats)

I don't think you have experience working in the neighborhoods,
cat-ocean inner-city -- it hasn't sounded like you "get" the dynamics.

Saying "an ordinance that isn't enforced is useless" demonstrates
that you're not understanding the whole dynamic! It will be a
TOOL for rescuers! And for ACs/shelters, it will be a tool, triggered
by a complaint; they're not going to go around looking.

2) You also aren't getting that this is a TEACHING LIST.
I am the main teacher, among other teachers here (mods and others).

Free expression can be easily misused, look at the scare campaign
(which apparently is winning) the opponents of SB 250 are running.

There are a zillion cat lists that are not moderated, and a zillion
that don't have a teaching purpose, and a zillion that don't have
one person dominating them.

My very long post earlier today, gave quite sufficient information
for anyone to realize, oh, my fears around this are groundless
(e.g. AC ALREADY has the power if they chose to go round up
feral cats, and they mostly don't)(and, the only feral colonies that
would be even affected by the bill, are if you are feeding a feral
colony in your personal backyard, then you need to s/n them, and
it doesn't have to be instantaneous).

3) I have been very disenheartened by the lack of critical thinking
I'm seeing, in TNR folk who haven't read the bill, just uncritically
read some opinion, and are taken in by scare tactics. I've seen this
locally, on this list, and further away. This happens to be one of
my "buttons" -- and this lack of critical thinking, lack of taking the
time to read a case, lack of seeing "who's against this bill?" (breeders!),
has really gotten to me. It is very disappointing to me.

I've spent hours reading, asking for clarification, emailing, etc.
I've had it! And I'm fed-up with TNR folk not doing the research to
see that this bill is what we want, would be a tool for us to use.
I'm still trying to change Becky Robinson of ACA's mind, as well.

4) Alice, in particular, you have sent me a number of hostile
emails off-list, and in this post you were also hostile.

Of course I'm not perfect. No one is. But my motivation for
doing this list is by gosh, I don't want other people making the
mistakes I did, when I was teaching myself to do TNR and rescue.
Yes, back when I was taking transit for miles through the snow to
do TNR, and all that.

So -- If you wish to discuss this particular bill more, please first
read up and listen up about it, then email me.

If you just can't stand my disagreeing with you, please find a list
that is more to your liking!

Gesine

********
> The point is to help cats and an ordinance that is not enforced is useless. Mandatory spay neuter alone is a a small step but with out other things including enforcement what good is it. I have read up on the issue of mandatory spay and neuter but I do not have big surprise yjr sdasme opinion as you.

Why is it that every time especially me disagrees with you that we are wrong. You may not be Christian but the only perfect person that walked this earth was and is Jesus and you are not him. Discussion is one sided and also useless if you will not allow free expression.

__._,_.___

Loyall pet food

2009-06-13T19:31:00.001-07:00

looks like they mostly do dog food. The company is Nutrena
Looks like a relatively new line of food, to be sold in ag-retailers instead of places like PetSmart.
I don't know where you are, but I can find it in Central Ohio if I click on my store locator.
Looks like the parent company Nutrena comes out of the agri-business world rather than originating with dogs and cats.
It meets the AAFCO requirements.
Looking at the ingredients, it lists first Poultry by-product meal, which ain't great, but better than starting off with corn (which is the 2nd ingredient).

Its probably equivalent to your grocery store chain food.

I'd say thanks to whoever donated it and feed away, unless you have money to feed better. In that case, pass it off to someone who can't afford better (but still say thanks).

Merlin

Fwd: [feral_cats] CAT HEALTH QUESTION

2009-06-13T19:27:00.001-07:00

My 9 yr-old Ebony and I have been fighting to keep her going for a couple
of weeks now. I wonder if any of you have experienced this and might have
some insight about what is causing all this, and how we might improve the
treatment.

It started out when she refused to eat and had violent, very loose
diarrhea--bloody and mucousy. Trip to the vet and blood panel revealed her kidneys
were failing. Vet kept her on IV fluids and whatever else for 4 days, sent
her home to my care when a new blood test said the kidneys were almost
normal. A week later, her kidneys were fine and her liver was off the chart.
I give her fluids every day, force feed her 4 + times a day, give her
vitamins and a new med for the liver. Diarrhea still present but thicker (I feed
her a mix of baby cereal, yogurt and kidney care cat food). Yesterday I
thought the battle was won when she actually took 3 small bites of Fancy
Feast, but she hasn't had one since.

She sleeps with me and purrs, rubs and generally loves me as usual, she is
very gentle and easy to treat. The ones among you who have been to my
house met her as my "welcoming committee of one". She was a bottle fed baby
from her 2nd day, and has always been a little on the fragile side.

Any input would be very, very appreciated!

__,_._,___